In this episode of Talking Sense, South Africa’s Deputy Finance Minister, Ashor Sarupen, sits down for a long-form interview with The Common Sense’s executive producer, Gabriel Makin. The discussion ranges from Sarupen’s political background to the country’s fiscal position, how government spending works, and the hard choices required to stabilise the national finances. The conversation explores South Africa’s six trillion rand debt burden, the peaking of the debt to GDP ratio, the shift toward running sustained primary budget surpluses, and the decision to adopt a three percent inflation target. Sarupen also speaks about lowering the country’s risk premium, the political dynamics within the Government of National Unity, the future of economic reform in areas like energy, ports and freight rail, and the broader question of how liberal democratic values shape policymaking in a diverse society.