In this episode of Talking Sense, Zakhele Mthembu, policy officer at the Free Market Foundation, sits down to chat with The Common Sense's executive producer, Gabriel Makin. They explore Zakhele's personal political development, going over what it is like to be a black South African who is also a libertarian (Zakhele may say Anarcho-Capitalist).

After that the discussion turns towards South Africa more broadly as the pair delve into what the appropriate role for the South African state is. Gabriel tries to offer Zakhele potential roles for the state in South Africa's economic development, but Zakhele is clear - the South African state should not have a direct role in the management of the economy. The conversation ends by looking at Zakhele's work on what he calls the "Job-seekers exemption certificate" which is a policy proposal of Zakhele's that seeks to help unemployed workers by giving them the option to opt out of some labour regulations for a limited period in order to find work. The proposal seeks to remove some of the barriers that discourage South African businesses from hiring more workers.