In this clip Dr James Myburgh, Dr Frans Cronje, and Simon Reader debate whether it makes sense for Geordin Hill-Lewis to join the cabinet. James begins with a single word: no. Frans then argues that the DA should make full use of the national platform afforded to it by being a part of government. James counters that once Mr Hill-Lewis enters the folds of government the ANC can exert far more control over him, while at the same time making him far less effective as a party leader. James points out that once in government Mr Hill-Lewis would have to deal with a ministerial schedule, a department staffed with ANC cadres, the trappings of minister's perks, answering to President Ramaphosa as his boss, and being able to effect minimal overall change. James ends by pointing out that if Mr Hill-Lewis sits outside of government he can use democratic centralism against the ANC by being able to more effectively pressure his party's ministers. Simon closes the conversation on the point that the most significant political changemaker in the United Kingdom in recent history, Nigel Farage, sat outside of government during the Brexit campaign.