In this clip the panel addresses Cyril Ramaphosa's recent defense of South Africa's empowerment policies. James Myburgh explains that Ramaphosa made the remarks in Parliament, where he dismissed criticism of BEE as “false”, “lies”, and “slogans”, while using mining as proof that the policy had broadened black participation. James says the problem with this argument is that Ramaphosa ignored the collapse in mining output, especially gold mining.

Simon Reader then explains how unattractive South Africa has become for mining investment. James then points to gold output, saying production has fallen from about 375 tons a year around 2003 to under 100 tons today, while Ramaphosa celebrates ownership changes in a shrinking industry. Richard Tren asks whether Ramaphosa prefers lower growth with more control to higher growth with less control.

Marius Roodt argues that the debate has shifted, with more people now questioning whether BEE has failed. The panel also discusses Julius Malema’s admission that BEE has benefited ANC connected elites, the DA’s Economic Inclusion for All Bill, and whether ordinary black South Africans have gained from the policy.